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Greg Dinger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Dinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: ISAPI Rewrite
    Posted: 28-April-2009 at 1:29am
Hi Curt,
 
You're welcome.
 
BTW, Sean and I go back many years.  We met when we were both Storefront developers.  As a point of interest, Sean authored a 404-based SEO mod for Storefront 5 several years ago which has worked successfully for many moons.  The big improvement of EI's approach over Sean's is how EI's adds the category and product ID in the new URL.  That helps resolve problems with duplicate product titles.  But Sean speaks from a background of significant depth.
 
I'm in the middle of upgrading a store to v3.51 which was altered by another team to support ISAPI and I have to tell you it's a bear.  They made several mods which are far more difficult to manage than simply using the SEO mod, and I can't possibly disagree with Sean's remarks.  ISAPI does not appear to be worth the effort for SEO.  I love it, however, for mapping "old store" to "new store" URLs, and have it running on all of our servers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote avalight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2009 at 1:16am
I installed the EI Seo mods and they were easy to install (just like Greg said) and have worked flawlessly since then (jan 2, 2009)  Whether they increased by SERP is hard to know, as I have kept chipping away at on-site and off-site SEO things, so our pages are getting higher on Google.
So good job to EI on this one and thanks Greg for telling me how easy it was to put in.
Curt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-April-2009 at 12:47am
Chiming in on the "bounce off custom 404" method vs. the ISAPI Rewrite method of rewriting URLs question here. I've noticed several threads on this, but chose this one to respond to.
 
After eight years of experience using the "bounce off custom 404" method with excellent success and a few years experience working with ISAPI Rewrite for all manner of things, I can't find any evidence that one method or the other is more advantageous for SERPs.
 
What I do find is that, while it could be possible to write routines to dyamically rewrite the rules for your ISAPI rewrite each time a product or category is added or edited, it is tremendously more work to go the ISAPI rewrite way.
 
That is, the ISAPI rewrite method is much more difficult to dial in (face it, regex is challenging for the best of us), requires more custom modifications to source code, which in turn makes upgrades more difficult, and is therefore more time/cost prohibitive. For what advantage really?
 
Using the "bounce off 404" method EI provides is much more efficient vis a vis the concerns I've just raised.
 
I simply cannot see an advantage in this context that ISAPI Rewrite would have over the EI method, but I can see several advantages the later has over the former.
 
Don't get me wrong about ISAPI Rewrite -- it's an amazing tool for many things. I just don't think that given the option that EI provides here with ProductCart that ISAPI Rewrite is the best way to go for this particular issue.
 
Without a split A/B test here (which we'll probably never have), there's probably no way we'll ever be able to conclusively determine if one method or the other is more advantageous for the SERPs, but we can know that the EI method is more scalable, less time/cost intensive, and does deliver excellent results.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slinc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2008 at 2:40pm
About 2 years ago I spent a lot of time rewriting Product Cart to work with Helicon ISAPI rewrite. I knew nothing about regular expressions so the learning curve was difficult and very time consuming. I also had to reprogram a lot of the code in Product Cart to get it to work correctly which took a lot more time.

Now my url's are very clean and I have a lot of control on them. One of the reasons I had to do this was that the URL structure of my old site was different than that of Product Cart. So to not loose my SEO ranking I modified the Product Cart URL's to match the old site. Since I moved 3 sites to Product Cart I needed something flexible since the URL's were different with each site.

While I probably spent well over 40 hours doing this it was probably worth it considering the flexibility I have now. The project included writing special functions to handle displaying the new URL format, changing every link on the site to show the new URL structure, modifying the administrative pages to allow complete customization of the url format and new custom fields for needed SEO information.

Many people have asked me for this code but it is so integrated into all my other site changes it would take a while to sort it all out to give it to someone. I might could pull some of the regular expressions I created to share. Maybe this will give you some idea as to what is involved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote avalight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2008 at 2:24pm
Well, that is interesting...If the PC Admin page for products was set up more like Volusion, it would make it a lot easier for me to modify my product descriptions and that is what would really help SE placement.  But that is on another posting thread.
-----I will take another look at this PC SEO re-write and see if I can do it in the 20 or 30 minutes, per Greg. Smile
Curt
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Greg Dinger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Dinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2008 at 12:47pm
I should add that I have a client who also owns a Volusion store - and just when we were preparing to install the PC SEO mod, he asked me to hold off because he found that his PC store was ranking and climbing just fine, without the mod, and better than his Volusion store ever did.  
 
So I would not assume that even the SEO mod is absolutely necessary to gain strong placement.


Edited by Greg Dinger - 30-December-2008 at 12:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProductCart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2008 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by avalight avalight wrote:

Additionally, search engines usually see a 404 error as a page that no longer exists, so it may have a counter productive impact on our site.


Please read our documentation. ProductCart - of course - does not return a 404 code when the system detects a correct product or category ID, but rather the correct, "success" code (200).

There is no difference conceptually between ANY of the URL rewrite techniques. In ALL cases, the page described in the URL does not exist as a physical file/location on the Web server, but you create ways to interpret those URLs and successfully deliver the corresponding page because they are friendlier than a series of querystrings (to site visitors, not just to search engines).
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Greg Dinger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Dinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2008 at 12:33pm
Since the PC SEO mod is reliant upon the description (product name) you can set keyword density in whatever way you wish.  Sure, with ISAPI  you may be able to control page names that differ from the product name, and perhaps that gives you greater flexibility, but I would want to hear from store owners who use ISAPI to learn if they had some strong opinion based on comparing the two approaches.  Regardless, ease of implementation of the PC mod versus ISAPI - as stated above - is going to be significant.  ISAPI is a royal pain.
 
I have one client who uses ISAPI for SEO but I'm not convinced the page names they ended up with are better than what the PC SEO mod does.  And my use of ISAPI is typically to map old site pages to new PC stores so they don't lose their legacy placement.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2008 at 12:17pm
The ProductCart seo url add-on does indeed work out of the box with no negative effects! We have been using this mod on two sites for approx a year now and are consistently ranked in the top 5 (as well as a few number one listings) on Google for the absolute most popular keyword combinations in our industry. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote avalight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2008 at 11:58am
Greg - Ease of implementation is a valid criteria - provide the solution works in the first place.  The PC SEO mod does a fine job of giving nice looking URL strings.  But does that increase SE placement?  Does the ProductCart system have a major flaw wrt URL search engine optimizing (SEO)? One of the major requirements for a site to index and list well on search engines is keyword URL density.  When I comes to ProductCart’s SEO solutions, I really don’t know if it would improve this and even if it did I really don’t know what the performance impact might be. A custom 404 page error is not intended to be used in this way. Additionally, search engines usually see a 404 error as a page that no longer exists, so it may have a counter productive impact on our site.  On the other hand, the iSAPI solution works with the ProductCart system as URL re-writes. This will result in higher SE placement.  But, from what I can tell, this type of implementation requires a great deal of customization to the ProductCart system. So, when I said the ISAPI rewrite is the way to go, I meant in providing tangible results - not which is easier...
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