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JWL View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Question for developers about custom price vs ...
    Posted: 09-September-2009 at 8:39pm
Hi, if a developer tries to charge (per hour) pricing for custom code that isn't custom code, but rather identical copy/pasted code, that was used on another project they worked on - how ethical is that as far as a business practice.

Thanks!
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Points: 135 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-September-2009 at 7:44pm
We don't see absolutely anything wrong with that. When you hire a developer you are paying for the time it takes to assist you: from understanding what your needs are, to making whatever changes need to be made, to delivering a pre-packaged solution (e.g. an add-on for ProductCart), etc.

- If the source code needed for the job (if any) is new code, it will take the developer more time to assist you, so you will end up paying more for the project.
- If the source code is not new, it will take less time to assist you.

You should certainly expect to pay for any time another company spends providing you with whatever product and services you requested from them. How are they going to stay in business otherwise?
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JWL View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-September-2009 at 9:47pm
Earlyimp, I think you missed the point.  There is obviously a huge difference (in price) between hiring someone to do custom code - as oppose to purchasing a license for code that is available to the public for purchase.

For instance, if you had developed ProductCart for a single client... and only that client was to ever use the software, because it was custom work - than that would cost them A LOT more than it does for someone to purchase a license for ProductCart.

Now say you were to go around selling ProductCart to multiple clients as if it were a totally custom job for each client, and thus charging the high fee associated with that type of work (because it 'custom work' takes more time and thus costs more than licensed code... as you noted in your post) - even though the same code is reused on each "custom" job - than that would be unethical, correct?


Edited by JWL - 10-September-2009 at 11:00pm
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intour View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-September-2009 at 6:12pm
This is a difficult one.
 
If someone hires me to create and design a website I use a lot of code I have used before on other sites. I may adapt it slightly but it is still the same code I may have spent several hours on for another job. I may have purchased some software to make my life easier  but my customers pay because I know what to use, where to get it from and how to use it.
 
People pay for your knowhow and expertise. A lawyer, for example, will still charge $200/$300 or more per hour even if he is working on a case identical to one he worked on the previous month.
 
I think its not good to pretend its totally new code but if you developed it you're entitled to charge for it regardless if you have been paid to do something similar or identical before.
 
In my own case I'd most likely tell the customer I'd done something similar before but I'd still charge for it if I was asked to do it again.
 
A photographer, for example, may be commissioned to take a photograph but he still owns the copyright and can sell the image on again if he wants unles specifically contracted not to.
 
I'm not taking sides here - just trying to give a view.
 
It's just business I guess.
 
Nigel


Edited by intour - 15-September-2009 at 6:14pm
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JWL View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2009 at 6:27am
Is there anyone here who speaks human?  I don't think there is - but, I can hope can't I.
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intour View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2009 at 10:11am

Many of us have been using this forum for years and don't have any problem communicating.

Perhaps the problem lies with you?
 
Nigel
 
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JWL View Drop Down
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Points: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2009 at 3:46pm
No, the problem doesn't lie with me, sir.  The problem lies with all of the snakes who are manipulating humanity.
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Points: 3 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2009 at 4:32pm
JWL, If the snakes continue to manipulate you, maybe your time would be better spent learning how to code for yourself rather than hiring a developer. Intour's explanation is right on point. This is how all accountants and lawyers and other professionals work, like it or not. You always have the choice not to hire.
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Points: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2009 at 4:48pm
Mac, I was always hestitant to hire a developer, and I won't do it again - I plan on learning to code myself... so I don't have to put up with all the lies and deceit.

And, yea - I know... that's how it works - does that make it right?  No...  it's like auto mechanics - or used car salesmen... I'm not sure these people have any idea what ethics are.  They might lie to themselves and buy into that lie - but, they really don't have any idea, what it means to be honest and ethical.


Edited by JWL - 16-September-2009 at 4:50pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-September-2009 at 12:53am
Originally posted by JWL JWL wrote:

Mac, I was always hestitant to hire a developer, and I won't do it again - I plan on learning to code myself... so I don't have to put up with all the lies and deceit.

And, yea - I know... that's how it works - does that make it right?  No...  it's like auto mechanics - or used car salesmen... I'm not sure these people have any idea what ethics are.  They might lie to themselves and buy into that lie - but, they really don't have any idea, what it means to be honest and ethical.
 
I've been trying to avoid this one as it's such a lightning rod, but this last pill is rahter harsh to swallow.
 
Fist of all developers, designers, project managers, etc. come in as many shapes, stripes and colors as people do. It's completely unfair and inaccurate to stereotype any of these folks.
 
However, when it comes to developers, recycling code is more a sign of a good developer. And even if it was a total cut and paste job, when you are contracting a developer you are contracting their expertise, not buying their code so much.
 
That is, it's the developers experience that is the "comodity" here, not their code. It's not at all uncommon for us developers to put in far more time on a nice "widget" than we actually get paid fair price for -- so it is not at all unreasonable for us to see if we can't find other opportunities to get that time paid back.
 
But even then, it's really more about the knowledge and experience.
 
I'm reminded of a little story that is often used in many contexts to illustrate this point:
 
There's this canning factory with a big assembly line pouring peas into cans and packaging them up. One day something goes wrong with the assembly line. The factory management calls in an engineer to fix it. The engineer surveys the situation, pokes his nose here and there, and then he opens up his tool box and pulls out a hammer. He then wacks the machinery in a certain spot, and everything starts working again on the assembly line.
 
The engineer then sends the factory a bill for $1000.00.
 
The factory protests: "All you did is wack it with a hammer!"
 
The engineer then explains that it was only $1.00 for the hammer wack, but $999.00 to know where to wack it.
 
EDIT: I should add that this story was first presented to my by a client MANY years ago who protested that I wasn't charging ENOUGH for my knowledge and expertise.


Edited by Sean@WMS - 17-September-2009 at 12:57am
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