Ordering without Login

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   I have a client who is using product cart v3. She had an old shopping cart (it was very basic and sucked) but the thing that was nicest about it which we didnt realize until we go product cart was that it didnt require a login. I can't for the life of me figure out why users have such a problem with logging into make an order but her customers do. Since we moved to product cart her orders have been cut by 40% from last year when they didnt have the login requirement.

Albeit the login really makes it easier for the customer and the store owner but it is causing a problem. Now the V3 software does have a feature that allows you to make your first order without creating a password. However on future orders if you try to use the same email address (because you thought you didnt have to login last time) you are told your email is already in the system and you cant order again until you login. This almost pisses people off more than having to create an account in the first place.

So we are thinking of modifying the code with the following procedure. If anyone else is interested in this please let us know. The client is going to pay for the time to write the procedure, but we are willing to  help her recoup her costs if anyone else would like to buy the code.

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The first time a user purchases and enters their email address the system will create a random password and save their email address. However on the save we will append a number to the email address so that they next time they order they can use their same email address. Each time they start an order with the same email address we will just append the next number in line so that you might have 10 accounts for the same user but each of them will have the email address with a different number appended at the end. On the administrative side you will still  be able to search based on email because of partial matching. However you will have to figure out which order the customer is calling about because there will be multiple records for the same email address in reality. We will make all email processes ignore the number appended at the end so all emails will still go out properly. Any other use of the email address in exports will also ignore the number to keep the email address unique. We know this will be time consuming to address all areas which will be affected but considering the large volume of business this client does and the number of complaints she gets about the login requirement it is worth it for her.

If anyone has any better ideas about how to "get around" the login process please let us know. We have thought about many differnt ways and this is the only one that seems to make sense besides changing the database structure to add a username field and rewriting all the sql. Right now the email address field is the user account field.

Thanks

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ssharp Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 31-October-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote ssharp Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Ordering without Login Posted: 31-October-2006 at 12:01pm
	I have a client who is using product cart v3. She had an old shopping cart (it was very basic and sucked) but the thing that was nicest about it which we didnt realize until we go product cart was that it didnt require a login. I can't for the life of me figure out why users have such a problem with logging into make an order but her customers do. Since we moved to product cart her orders have been cut by 40% from last year when they didnt have the login requirement. Albeit the login really makes it easier for the customer and the store owner but it is causing a problem. Now the V3 software does have a feature that allows you to make your first order without creating a password. However on future orders if you try to use the same email address (because you thought you didnt have to login last time) you are told your email is already in the system and you cant order again until you login. This almost pisses people off more than having to create an account in the first place. So we are thinking of modifying the code with the following procedure. If anyone else is interested in this please let us know. The client is going to pay for the time to write the procedure, but we are willing to help her recoup her costs if anyone else would like to buy the code. ------------- The first time a user purchases and enters their email address the system will create a random password and save their email address. However on the save we will append a number to the email address so that they next time they order they can use their same email address. Each time they start an order with the same email address we will just append the next number in line so that you might have 10 accounts for the same user but each of them will have the email address with a different number appended at the end. On the administrative side you will still be able to search based on email because of partial matching. However you will have to figure out which order the customer is calling about because there will be multiple records for the same email address in reality. We will make all email processes ignore the number appended at the end so all emails will still go out properly. Any other use of the email address in exports will also ignore the number to keep the email address unique. We know this will be time consuming to address all areas which will be affected but considering the large volume of business this client does and the number of complaints she gets about the login requirement it is worth it for her. If anyone has any better ideas about how to "get around" the login process please let us know. We have thought about many differnt ways and this is the only one that seems to make sense besides changing the database structure to add a username field and rewriting all the sql. Right now the email address field is the user account field. Thanks

katharina Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25-October-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote katharina Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31-October-2006 at 12:23pm
	I like this idea, but I think your idea is missing the point of buying without login. Pleople usually prefer this method with the idea that their email address will not be use or stored, or they don't have an email account, or they use a public computer. My suggestion is to have 3 options for check out: Existing account customers New customers creating account Ordering with out creating an account - no email address The ones creating an account or those that have an existing account should be rewarded with earning reward points and/or other special offerings. Those that shop without an account can not earn reward points. No order confirmation or tracking number with be emailled. This will not have an impact on looking up customers, since you can search by name. Just a thought... Katharina Edited by katharina - 31-October-2006 at 12:43pm

ssharp Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 31-October-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote ssharp Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02-November-2006 at 3:27pm
	Unless i'm missing something here, there is no option to allow users to order without creating an account. E-mail address is a required field and it is the same field as user name. i believe it would take a rewrite of the database and a significant amount of code to remove email address from the picture and make it optional for those who want to use it.

ProductCart Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group ProductCart Team Joined: 01-October-2003 Status: Offline Points: 135	Post Options Post Reply Quote ProductCart Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02-November-2006 at 3:59pm
	ssharp, that is correct. It would require a big effort, which is one of the reasons why in v3 we were able to introduce a "Checkout without entering a password" feature, but not a "Checkout without registering" feature. All in all, there are so many advanced features in ProductCart that are tied to the creation and existence of a customer account that right now it simply does not make sense for us to perform the code changes. In addition, the number of requests for this feature is very small. That said, enabling Google Checkout (ProductCart v3.04 and above) might provide an alternative as it allows somebody to have one Google account and use it on multiple stores, thus not having to register on the new stores. So if the customer already had a Google account, that customer would be able to checkout on a ProductCart-powered store that has enabled Google Checkout without directly creating an account (but even in that case, an account IS actually created in the ProductCart database based on the information provided to ProductCart by Google Checkout).
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watercrazed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 31-December-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote watercrazed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01-December-2006 at 11:03pm
	Well one more vote for account creation not being required. Over 1/2 of our phone orders are from people that do not have/want to provide an email address. Phone orders are not cost effective. Cutting half of them would be a big advance. P.S. They would not be using google checkout Edited by watercrazed - 01-December-2006 at 11:04pm
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kostis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 24-April-2007 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote kostis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24-April-2007 at 6:31am
	I agree with watercrazed. The customer has to arrive as fast as possible to the checkout screen without having to login or register. 50% of our orders are telephone orders as well. An alternative is to use a default email: nobody@mystore.com and a default password for this email: "12345" when the email form is left empty. You cannot track orders by customer email but at least your order flow will surely increase. Edited by kostis - 24-April-2007 at 6:32am

ssharp Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 31-October-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote ssharp Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24-May-2007 at 2:48pm
	FYI we finally ended up writing a "hack" to product cart to allow for express checkout. We basically create a dummy email account in the username field each time a person goes through the checkout with express checkout. They dont get order confirmation emails but the store administrator can looki up their order information. the customers DONT care about the e-mail confirmation. Orders have increased by about 30-40% since writing this express checkout hack and not one person has complained about not getting an email confirmaton. Guess my client was right about this!

MarkCoyle Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06-June-2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MarkCoyle Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24-May-2007 at 4:20pm
	I'm glad it's working for you but this will only work for certain types of store. It's pretty much essential in many stores to have a confirmation email. For example in ours it provides the download instructions for digital goods. We have found PayPal Express generates more business anyway as it's a simpler process in itself. PayPal Pro debit/credit card payments then adds more as it well realised. Ordering without login as here will be suitable for some but not for all - so people really do need to consider their end to end process requirements fully before making a choice I feel. cheers Mark

Hamish Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 12-October-2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 56	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hamish Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13-November-2007 at 12:45pm
	ssharp, I would love to know more about simplifying the order process - including ordering without login. Our site is for people to order sandwiches for collection or delivery - but all C.o.D or account - so we need to keep the ordering system as simple as possible, with fewer screens for customers to go through.

legolas Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 19-November-2007 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote legolas Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19-November-2007 at 5:02pm
	It's funny that this is not a feature of ProductCart when it has so many other features together that other carts do not. This is, in my opinion, a very basic feature. As a consumer I can tell you that I myself do not want to create an account at every place I make an order from. I simply don't want to maintain who knows how many accounts at various retailers. I'm sure I have accounts sitting out there I've forgotten about at various online stores that I placed an order with once and was forced to create an account. Some purchases you simply don't need to create an account for and that shouldn't prevent you from getting email confirmation, shipping notification, or coming back and placing a 2nd order and still not using an account that was created for me the 1st time even though I didn't want one. For some types of stores it makes a much bigger impact on their target audience and as illustrated in the case of ssharp's client, can actually impact your sales. Anyhow.. I'll add my vote of making account creation an optional requirement so that it is actually functional.